EOSERV Forum > EO Server Building > Complete swamp map(s) release
Page: << 1 2 >>
Complete swamp map(s) release
Author Message
Post #202556 Complete swamp map(s) release

So this is the result of the feedback regarding the first map, and using some of the ideas that have been presented to me from my previous post. Overall I know that the swamps aren't a super versatile and creative tile to work with but I needed to tackle a place that could be a good area to farm and gather ingredients.  I'm not an incredibly experienced mapper, but I think these turned out alright. These are maps that I will be using as an area on my server, so I wont be linking a download. I'd like you all to take a look and give a -/10 rating, and add any information you think I could use to improve the maps / myself as a Mapper.  I appreciate all of your feedback, cheers! 

Map 1: This is the map I originally posted to gain feedback on. It was noted that the immediate change and fade to the swamp tile water wasn't working out. I decided that if I couldn't manage a gradual change, I would just avoid it all together. Through using different types of Grass, walls, Brush, Cat-tail Grass, I found that this wall was the best suited, and allowed for the hanging tree, which was a pretty cool addition. I also added a patch of Dirt near the middle area, just to liven up the area to an extent; and give it a bit more detail. I am aware of the weird wall on the right, that sort of collides with the bridge and I'm working on a more visually appealing fix.  

 

Map 2: This map leads off to the left of the first map, as you can probably tell, and allows a small area to farm as well as a Witches house which will serve as the main area to bring your crafting items from the swamp. 


Map 3: This map is a typical farming area, although I don't really have a solid idea of what to put here. Maybe vines / Tenba's. 



Map 4: This area sort of builds up the the cave essentially, which I'm sure more experienced mappers will find to be such a bland wall of stone. But for not I think it works until i think of something more creative. 


Map 5: This is the inside of the cave, clearly. Again I'm sure people that have more experience with mapping could tear apart this map due to it's simplicity but if you have any recommendations on how to improve it, I'd love to hear. 



If the images don't work, here's a direct link to them all together. http://imgur.com/a/rQQvs

7 years, 6 weeks ago
Post #202557 Re: Complete swamp map(s) release

If it's possible at all, switch the water colors around. I know you'd have to put something else on the base of the water, but the depth is all wrong. The light end should be near the grass, and depth out.

7 years, 6 weeks ago
Post #202558 Re: Complete swamp map(s) release
Destiny posted: (23rd Feb 2017, 03:30 am)

If it's possible at all, switch the water colors around. I know you'd have to put something else on the base of the water, but the depth is all wrong. The light end should be near the grass, and depth out.


I agree with this, however, due to lack of graphics, I don't think that's possible with it blending with the swamp ground. With the swamp tiles, I do not believe there are any tiles that flow the bank into a lighter water. Therefore the only way to really accomplish this is to do what was done.

The wall itself isn't a terrible addition, it just looks odd having a wall like that in the middle of the water. Like I said though, without custom gfx to really show a flow of difference between shallow and deep waters, it's hard to do this efficiently. If I was any better at pixel art, I would have created my own tiles a long time ago for better visual effects, such as tall staircases higher than just one, different size boats (from side to side not front to back), better grass changes, walls to show better transition from "hills", and so many more. Most of what needs to be created graphically wise isn't necessarily "new and improved" graphics. It's simply graphics that transition better. Such as dirt paths into cobblestone paths, grass/dirt paths/cobblestone paths into the outside of cave paths, etc. Even if it isn't improved graphics to be better than Arvid's bs, but rather Arvid's crap style with more options, that would help so much more in the creativity in maps.
7 years, 6 weeks ago
Post #202559 Re: Complete swamp map(s) release
Acemasta posted: (23rd Feb 2017, 03:58 am)

Destiny posted: (23rd Feb 2017, 03:30 am)

If it's possible at all, switch the water colors around. I know you'd have to put something else on the base of the water, but the depth is all wrong. The light end should be near the grass, and depth out.


I agree with this, however, due to lack of graphics, I don't think that's possible with it blending with the swamp ground. With the swamp tiles, I do not believe there are any tiles that flow the bank into a lighter water. Therefore the only way to really accomplish this is to do what was done.

The wall itself isn't a terrible addition, it just looks odd having a wall like that in the middle of the water. Like I said though, without custom gfx to really show a flow of difference between shallow and deep waters, it's hard to do this efficiently. If I was any better at pixel art, I would have created my own tiles a long time ago for better visual effects, such as tall staircases higher than just one, different size boats (from side to side not front to back), better grass changes, walls to show better transition from "hills", and so many more. Most of what needs to be created graphically wise isn't necessarily "new and improved" graphics. It's simply graphics that transition better. Such as dirt paths into cobblestone paths, grass/dirt paths/cobblestone paths into the outside of cave paths, etc. Even if it isn't improved graphics to be better than Arvid's bs, but rather Arvid's crap style with more options, that would help so much more in the creativity in maps.

Over all thought, how would you rate the maps?
7 years, 6 weeks ago
Post #202560 Re: Complete swamp map(s) release
Acemasta posted: (23rd Feb 2017, 03:58 am)

Destiny posted: (23rd Feb 2017, 03:30 am)

If it's possible at all, switch the water colors around. I know you'd have to put something else on the base of the water, but the depth is all wrong. The light end should be near the grass, and depth out.


I agree with this, however, due to lack of graphics, I don't think that's possible with it blending with the swamp ground. With the swamp tiles, I do not believe there are any tiles that flow the bank into a lighter water. Therefore the only way to really accomplish this is to do what was done.

The wall itself isn't a terrible addition, it just looks odd having a wall like that in the middle of the water. Like I said though, without custom gfx to really show a flow of difference between shallow and deep waters, it's hard to do this efficiently. If I was any better at pixel art, I would have created my own tiles a long time ago for better visual effects, such as tall staircases higher than just one, different size boats (from side to side not front to back), better grass changes, walls to show better transition from "hills", and so many more. Most of what needs to be created graphically wise isn't necessarily "new and improved" graphics. It's simply graphics that transition better. Such as dirt paths into cobblestone paths, grass/dirt paths/cobblestone paths into the outside of cave paths, etc. Even if it isn't improved graphics to be better than Arvid's bs, but rather Arvid's crap style with more options, that would help so much more in the creativity in maps.

But something similar to what was done with your image could be applied to it. However, that would require two breakaways that are covered with objects. Your pipes blended well, and I'm thinking if you head for the lighter aspect near the base you could very easily apply the lighting differentials by using objects to cover the poorly applies lines. Just my opinion. I could make an example tomorrow of what I mean if I need to.
7 years, 6 weeks ago
Post #202561 Re: Complete swamp map(s) release

Map 1: Get rid of the wall completely. The gradual change from normal water to swamp water just doesn't work, and the wall feels extremely out of place. If you want to make a gradual change like that I'd have it start off in a different map and have the bridge connect the two. Could use a little bit more detail too. If you were to remove the wall and other water tile it would look a lot better.


Map 2: I think this is the best one of the five. Good job. Could use a little more detail in places but overall it's pretty good.


Map 3: Seems plain. Maybe put a bridge in and add some more dirt spots. Also there's a broken tree stump in the middle of the lake.


Map 4: I understand you want it to transition into a cave for the next map but I don't like the rocky tiles there. The cave is okay, just get rid of the grey tiles. Maybe add some more of those rocks along the side of the wall, or something else to allow the player to come to the conclusion that this is in fact an entrance to a cave. Also there is another broken tree stump in the water.


Map 5: There really isn't much you can do with inside cave maps.. Usually they're long and windy rather than just one big opening. Maybe make a tunnel with a couple larger areas rather than one large area. Also those spikes in the water don't fit. Those are more used in underwater maps to give the illusion that you're standing underwater. With the way you used them it looks like the water is higher than the floor of the cave.


Overall good job for a "not so experienced" mapper.


Edit: Something I tend to do a lot is go through the original EO maps and see how they used objects and tiles with eachother. Basically, what did they consider part of a theme or set. It's not always a great idea, considering a lot of the EO maps are garbage, but it can at least give you a bigger pool of objects/tiles/whatever else to choose from when making your own maps.

---
Tire me.
7 years, 6 weeks ago
Post #202563 Re: Complete swamp map(s) release
Holystone posted: (23rd Feb 2017, 04:12 am)

Acemasta posted: (23rd Feb 2017, 03:58 am)

Destiny posted: (23rd Feb 2017, 03:30 am)

If it's possible at all, switch the water colors around. I know you'd have to put something else on the base of the water, but the depth is all wrong. The light end should be near the grass, and depth out.


I agree with this, however, due to lack of graphics, I don't think that's possible with it blending with the swamp ground. With the swamp tiles, I do not believe there are any tiles that flow the bank into a lighter water. Therefore the only way to really accomplish this is to do what was done.

The wall itself isn't a terrible addition, it just looks odd having a wall like that in the middle of the water. Like I said though, without custom gfx to really show a flow of difference between shallow and deep waters, it's hard to do this efficiently. If I was any better at pixel art, I would have created my own tiles a long time ago for better visual effects, such as tall staircases higher than just one, different size boats (from side to side not front to back), better grass changes, walls to show better transition from "hills", and so many more. Most of what needs to be created graphically wise isn't necessarily "new and improved" graphics. It's simply graphics that transition better. Such as dirt paths into cobblestone paths, grass/dirt paths/cobblestone paths into the outside of cave paths, etc. Even if it isn't improved graphics to be better than Arvid's bs, but rather Arvid's crap style with more options, that would help so much more in the creativity in maps.

Over all thought, how would you rate the maps?

Map 1: 5

This is not really your fault entirely, simply lack of gfx. The creativity in what you were attempting to do is great, it's just hard to apply it. Although there are actually a lot of objects in the water that don't seem to fit, such as bushes and tree stumps. One thing you could do to add a bit more detail is add in some dirt to all the grass. Swamps really aren't supposed to be so "clean". (Not like the floor tile dirt, but rather the objects of dirt themselves).

Map 2: 8

This one is pretty great, though there's a bit too much of a cluster of trees in the south-west part of the map. Again, though, some dirt addition to add detail would be nice.

Map 3: 7.5

This isn't too terrible, but not the greatest. In the water, there's some bushes and that one tree stump that don't really fit. You didn't really use any of the small rocks out there either, so you could maybe replace those with the small rocks you used in the second map. The land itself isn't too bad but maybe throw some dirt around like the others to give a tiny bit more detail working with what you can.

Map 4: 6.5

This one has some complications, starting with odd objects in the water. Second, a little dirt on the ground as well. The transition between swamp to cave just looks off, but again, that's not your fault. Working with it is a bit too difficult, especially when first starting out.

Map 5: 6.5

The inside of the cave could use a tiny, tiny bit more in the water, but overall the space just needs to be a lot smaller. Again, not your fault, but due to the lack of gfx, for inside buildings/areas like caves, it's always nice to make each individual map smaller and more designed as corridors instead of a big room. Windy and such, not straight of course. I'd say at the biggest make it maybe 20x20 if it's supposed to be a room big enough for a lot to happen. Such as a big fight against a boss or something.


@Destiny

I guess you're not wrong there. Maybe using the cattails against the bank to hide the fact that the water colors don't blend while making closer water lighter and then trying something like the pipes (or something just as small that fits well) to hide the transition from light to deep water. I'm not sure pipes would look too good here because it'd seem like they came out of nowhere rather than on my map where they came out of the wall as if it were part of a sewage system or something of the sort.


Edit: @Mouse

Going back to original EO maps to see how they work isn't the worst idea when looking at certain themes. Though at the same time Mouse isn't wrong about them being poorly made themselves. There are plenty of problems that the devs didn't much care about when they released the game with those maps.


All this talk about mapping and looking at these maps, along with seeing the potential new EOMap editor coming.. It makes me want to get back into mapping. I'd love to, just not really anything to map for at the moment. I'd just be doing it to pass time. \:

7 years, 6 weeks ago
Post #202566 Re: Complete swamp map(s) release

Well that wall looks like crap except for the sexy branch going over it. I mean if you have an in game explanation for the wall I guess it could be okay but I mean who even cares about story RIGHT!?

7 years, 5 weeks ago
Post #202567 Re: Complete swamp map(s) release
Evoreclaimer posted: (24th Feb 2017, 03:09 am)

Well that wall looks like crap except for the sexy branch going over it. I mean if you have an in game explanation for the wall I guess it could be okay but I mean who even cares about story RIGHT!?


-raises hand-

-looks around-

-nobody else has their hand up-

-looks down depressed-

Guess I'm the only one.

7 years, 5 weeks ago
Post #202568 Re: Complete swamp map(s) release

I'm actually a mapper for the server he is making. And I keep getting shot down for wanting to make story and therefore reason to even play the server besides "Game play mechanics". I keep trying to have reason for stuff like hey how about we put a guard saying something like "Watch out the evil sealed here has been restless lately" which will give off the impression that man had created a wall to protect people from the terrors inside and block the water change at the same time but nope. FML

7 years, 5 weeks ago
Post #202569 Re: Complete swamp map(s) release

That's a little depressing. Games are too basic without a story to drive them. With no story, you get the original EO where you only had bots out killing things and any REAL human players were just sitting in the main town talking. I thought we were playing a roleplaying game, not an overly-massively made avatar based chat room.

7 years, 5 weeks ago
Post #202570 Re: Complete swamp map(s) release

I really hope he reads that. He says that we have to make the game then story but I argue that it'd be much easier to make a game based off of story or at least a vague direction that can be bolstered and progressed by tidbits here and there of story.

7 years, 5 weeks ago
Post #202571 Re: Complete swamp map(s) release

If you create a good story beforehand, it's always better. The reason for this is because when you make a good story, usually there's aspects that will affect the world itself. Such as areas that are decaying due to an evil force in the area, or a really over-iced area due to an extremely creature of Ice was enraged and engulfed the area in it, or maybe God (or one of the gods if more than one) decided that there were too many corrupt people in one area or who lacked faith and decided to smite the entire area, so there are plenty of broken buildings and such. It helps push forward map designing, themes of certain areas, and even how objects will be handled in the game, such as what areas would need what pieces of equipment and more. There are plenty of things that call for a world being based off a story rather than a story being based off a world. Think about Earth. It's already here. What kind of story can you make based off the world that is already in existence? What books or movies are deemed as amazing and some of the best? Ones like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings. These were all worlds that were created to fit the story they came up with in their heads.

7 years, 5 weeks ago
Post #202572 Re: Complete swamp map(s) release

Update: I have overhauled the map essentially. I pretty much just made it look like a swamp and fucked it up :P I feel like this is a bit better than other renditions.


7 years, 5 weeks ago
Post #202573 Re: Complete swamp map(s) release
Holystone posted: (24th Feb 2017, 05:05 am)

Update: I have overhauled the map essentially. I pretty much just made it look like a swamp and fucked it up :P I feel like this is a bit better than other renditions.


I think you've used way to many cat tails.  To overcrowded now.  Cat tails need water as well which is why their usually found around the side of a pond(or swamp).  So having them randomly placed in a grassy area far away from any water source seems out of place to me.

Otherwise thanks for the release to the community! I'm sure people will find these useful! Realized it wasn't a release.

EDIT: as for your cave map, it looks way to man made.  You could add curves to the walls, just to add some deformation, it'll make it look more like mother nature created it.
7 years, 5 weeks ago
Page: << 1 2 >>

EOSERV Forum > EO Server Building > Complete swamp map(s) release