Forum :: Programming :: Kalandra II (Edited, check my last post)

Sordie posted: (22nd Jul 2012, 04:51 pm)

Goobypls posted: (22nd Jul 2012, 04:20 pm)

I don't know if this is already implented-- maybe you could make visual map editing, like you change the tiles on the map via being online in the game. But you have to press publish map or w/e to make the map visible to other players.

Oh, another idea could be a community map, like if players were on a map they could make a map of there own but only on that 1 map :o

Yes, this is currently how I'm making test maps. Admins can edit the map live using the client.

The server handles the "world" a little different to how EO does. EO simply has a collection of maps that player can be on. Kalandra has "Instances" much like dungeons in WoW. This will allow me to implement features such as giving guilds their own guild house or allow parties to go fight a boss without interruption from other parties doing the same thing. No reason why this couldn't be used for community maps. Maybe something like a guild garden that a guild could decorate with trophies of the bosses they have defeated that other people can come and visit.

EDIT: Standard. This IS NOT the lounge! Contribute or go away.

Freaking awesome Sordie! I really can't wait for Kalandra II to come out. I'd be happy to learn pascal/delphi just for this c:

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I think it would be cool to have map travel

and to be able to buy a house/store/inn or even a small town..

agree with stava; and town owners can collect tax... shotty being the mayor

So will this end up that anyone can use it or do we need to know how to code? Probly a daft question.

Also so people can run totally different gui's it would be cool to config your buttons to any spot by using there (x:y)- Example: Play Game (x:20 y:20).

Don't know if this is possible but it would make servers unique

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Standard posted: (22nd Jul 2012, 05:18 pm)

So will this end up that anyone can use it or do we need to know how to code? Probly a daft question.

Also so people can run totally different gui's it would be cool to config your buttons to any spot by using there (x:y)- Example: Play Game (x:20 y:20).

Don't know if this is possible but it would make servers unique

It will be available open source for anyone that wants to change any core features of the game but for the most part I'm trying to make it as configurable as possible so people can have totally custom servers without having to worry about knowing how to code or setup compilers etc.

Custom GUI already answered:
https://eoserv.net/forum/topic/19992&p=3#post153487

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Sordie posted: (22nd Jul 2012, 06:10 pm)

Standard posted: (22nd Jul 2012, 05:18 pm)

So will this end up that anyone can use it or do we need to know how to code? Probly a daft question.

Also so people can run totally different gui's it would be cool to config your buttons to any spot by using there (x:y)- Example: Play Game (x:20 y:20).

Don't know if this is possible but it would make servers unique

It will be available open source for anyone that wants to change any core features of the game but for the most part I'm trying to make it as configurable as possible so people can have totally custom servers without having to worry about knowing how to code or setup compilers etc.

Custom GUI already answered:
https://eoserv.net/forum/topic/19992&p=3#post153487

So you're effectively making a script based engine :P? I like that idea, when I make console games in pascal I like to have the game as customisable as possible from flat files making variables very rarely hard coded. This project that you have going I think would be awesome to play with both the executable and the source code to see how you go about certain things. I learnt a lot from MEOW that you had going a couple weeks/months/years? Back :P. One feature of the client I would like to see is making an executable that could "build" the client idk if it'd be possible to do that, based on what you input in certain configuration files or setup files. So you effectively have a client builder then a client release, instead of having a completely customisable client that anyone can freely edit so it keeps the client / server compatible with one another. 

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Klutz posted: (22nd Jul 2012, 12:41 am)

Make vsync optional, we may only view at the monitor refresh rate, but we may record at higher fps using fraps etc.

I don't really think having vsync as an option would do much good, if any. It would have no effect at all even if you were running a recording or streaming program, and if you're having problems running a 2D game at max FPS then your GPU may or may not be a potato and in need of replacement. The only time I've ever seen vsync come in handy was....never, actually. It just makes the FPS numbers skyrocket, there's no visual change from it.

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Syran posted: (22nd Jul 2012, 07:43 pm)

Klutz posted: (22nd Jul 2012, 12:41 am)

Make vsync optional, we may only view at the monitor refresh rate, but we may record at higher fps using fraps etc.

I don't really think having vsync as an option would do much good, if any. It would have no effect at all even if you were running a recording or streaming program, and if you're having problems running a 2D game at max FPS then your GPU may or may not be a potato and in need of replacement. The only time I've ever seen vsync come in handy was....never, actually. It just makes the FPS numbers skyrocket, there's no visual change from it.

There can be a visual change with no vsync. If the buffer swaps before the current frame has finished drawing then you get nasty tearing across the screen. =S Basically you're correct. Turning off vsync is a really bad idea. It's only really for developers to see how fast their render pipeline is and those idiots that put neon lights inside their computers and brag about their FPS XD

Edit: GAH! Twitpic is broken, I was going to post a screenshot of a little window I just added to aid live map editing in-game.

Edit EDIT!: nvm it works again:


I should explain the "Wall" bit. EO has a flag if you can walk on a tile or not. This is horrid for map developers because all walls have to be 1 tile thick. Any mapper will tell you what a pain this is if you want to do things like walkable rooftops etc. So, for each tile in Kalandra there is a "Cant walk this direction" flag. This is far more flexible and even allows you to make one-way walls.

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Yes :D I hate having to make fences 1 tile thick like that in eo too.

@Sordie: Will you out-of-box client/editor support multi-layer map walking. For example, a bridge crosses a lower road. Lower players move north or south going under the bridge, upper level players move east and west crossing over the bridge. This would seem a very important move for developing in top-down view to help increase the illusion of depth on a map. Can't wait to see more from KII.

Apollo posted: (22nd Jul 2012, 11:27 pm)

@Sordie: Will you out-of-box client/editor support multi-layer map walking. For example, a bridge crosses a lower road. Lower players move north or south going under the bridge, upper level players move east and west crossing over the bridge. This would seem a very important move for developing in top-down view to help increase the illusion of depth on a map. Can't wait to see more from KII.

Yes, I render not only colour pixels but also to a z-buffer (depth) how the render pipeline works:

The tiles are all 32x32. I configure the graphics engine to have a 32 pixel texel so each tile is addressed as simple 1.

First a vertex cache is created. This is an empty render that pre-calculates what parts of the map can be seen and each visible tile positions. For all other layers no further calculations are now needed. (all layers can be rendered without any position calculation, simply a lookup. ie 50 layers isn't much different to 5 layers)

The floor level is rendered. The floor level is basically 1x1 texel tile map. Every tile is rendered with the Z-index of 0 to assure the floor is always under everything.

Alpha blending is now enabled.

The first "item" level is rendered in a Y order. The item level can specify a texel size larger than 1x1 but each item is rendered to the z-buffer with it's Y (top to bottom) position.

All actors are now rendered (actors are any moveable object on the map. Players, NPCs, Mobs, Dropped items). No need for Z-sorting. They are simply drawn at whatever order the client likes. Any pixel with a Z value <= the current z-buffer is ignored.

Now the second item layer is rendered in the same way.

Basically what this means is: When drawing a pixel on the screen I don't just write an Red, Green and Blue value. I also write a Z (depth) value. If the current depth value at the pixel is higher than the one that's being drawn then the colour values aren't drawn.

So yeah as the Z (depth) can be offest by a map tile, it's totally possible to have bridges etc.

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As im only able to do art... this is for you :P

use it as you like... (idkif ur able to XD)

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Queen that looks  awesome, hope sordie can use that!

Queen posted: (23rd Jul 2012, 06:42 pm)

As im only able to do art... this is for you :P

use it as you like... (idkif ur able to XD)

Very nice.
A quick word on graphics:

The Tech stuff:
Kalandra uses tile sheets rather than individual graphic files so it can render the map as a single vertex buffer (without the need for texture changes). Because of this all map graphics need to be included in the main tile sprite sheet. The main engine is optimized for 32x32 pixels = 1 texel. (bit shift 5) and the map format addresses tiles as texels. (eg 0-0 = 0,0->32x32; 1-0 - 32,0->64,32) This can all be handled by the graphics hardware nice and fast!

What this means to artists:
All graphic dimensions need to be multiples of 32... They can be any size you like, as long as that size is dividable by 32 =P.

And a personal preference:
Don't limit yourself to a palette. Internally things are rendered to a 24 bit colour buffer. Use any and every RGB value you need.
Use the alpha channel! Anti-alias, blend your edges to the background. Utilize the alpha channel to add shadows and things like glass. Kalandra fully supports this.

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Sordie posted: (23rd Jul 2012, 09:20 pm)

Queen posted: (23rd Jul 2012, 06:42 pm)

As im only able to do art... this is for you :P

use it as you like... (idkif ur able to XD)

Very nice.
A quick word on graphics:

The Tech stuff:
Kalandra uses tile sheets rather than individual graphic files so it can render the map as a single vertex buffer (without the need for texture changes). Because of this all map graphics need to be included in the main tile sprite sheet. The main engine is optimized for 32x32 pixels = 1 texel. (bit shift 5) and the map format addresses tiles as texels. (eg 0-0 = 0,0->32x32; 1-0 - 32,0->64,32) This can all be handled by the graphics hardware nice and fast!

What this means to artists:
All graphic dimensions need to be multiples of 32... They can be any size you like, as long as that size is dividable by 32 =P.

And a personal preference:
Don't limit yourself to a palette! Internally things are rendered to a 24 bit colour buffer. Use any and every RGB value you need!
Use your alpha channel! Anti-alias, blend your edges to the background. Utilize the alpha channel to add shadows and things like glass. Kalandra fully supports this.

Awesomeeeeeeeeee. Hurry up and finish >:O

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