Forum :: Lounge :: Coding. What language first?

Arcitex posted: (18th Jul 2011 12:34 pm)

To be honest, if you're really interested in learning how to program that's probably not the best route. If your goal is to "have the best eoserv server", you're probably not going to become a good programmer.

I don't wan't to code for a living, Nor do i want the best EOserv. I wanna contribute. I want to do it as a hobby. Who knows i might like it so much it will take me to other things but i just wanna work on EOserv because really ive been with endless-online for more than 4-5 years.

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Endless-Online Version 18
Original Madmat

Wanting to code specifically for a living is typically another bad indication.

Anyway, I understand your view, I'm just saying that my advice isn't for you then.

No i understand what your saying. You have to be commited to do something like this, it isnt a picture book. And i know this. I think i mean to say that i do want to code. But i think i'm getting a head of myself saying that i want to base my learning straight off c++ and EOserv. Where should I start Arcitex.

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Endless-Online Version 18
Original Madmat

I would recommend C++ or maybe even Python because the syntax is way easier to understand.

I agree with Arcitex on this one. When wanting to learn how to program, you should learn concepts first and not the specific language. What I mean by that, is you need to logically think about how you want to do this. Then, after you learn that, I would focus on a language syntax, preferrably one that has a common syntax between many languages. After that, you should just jump in to coding and start out by making some small stuff and working your way up.

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http://www.addipop.com

I fell for the trap of reading the EOSERV Source and using that as a reference when I first started working with EOSERV. I was just like "ooh that looks similar to that, *copies, pastes, edits*" When that isn't always the best way to go about doing something and degrades the efficiency of your server, when you're a programmer, efficiency is a key thing for any program you decide to make.

But yeah Like Arcietx has said you need to be a logical thinker, going over how the program will actually function as you're coding it the way you want it to function. Pascal has taught me some key skills in doing this so I would suggest using a language with an easy syntax so you can see what you're doing and how it affects the program you're working on, PHP can be a bit tricky to set up but if you can get it set up then PHP would be a good starting point for you 

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If money doesn't grow on trees, then why do banks have branches?

I started programming on my TI calculator in BASIC. That was a simple language that taught me all those huge problem solving concepts that arcitex was talking about. From there I moved into HTML/CSS/Javascript. My first real programming language was Java, and I had an advantage of teachingmyself TI-Basic and learning how to solve problems using a programming language.

From there I taught myself C# (almost the same as Java). My mistake at this point was looking at the eoserv source and trying to understand it without any knowledge of C++. Learning a new language may be easier than learning programming concepts, but that doesn't make it an easy thing to do(especially without looking up any tutorials :D). I just finished a year of C++ at a college level and we did some pretty advanced stuff - and I still don't know enough to fully understand the eoserv source.

If you don't feel like reading this huge block of text skip to the tl;dr.

At this point I'm going to describe what I know about a few languages and let you choose. You can google pretty much anything and come up with an answer to your question in a number of languages. I'm going to flag each language as script, function based, or class based. Script means its alanguage that executes a script. Class based means it uses programming objects called classes to do most of its execution. Function based means it uses programming objects called functions to do most of its execution.

These are my opinions, so depending on what you choose you may have an easier/harder time with these languages.

C++: Function based. Gives you more power/control over your computer, but also a lot of responsibility to write efficient programs. It's not that hard to learn basic console output/syntax but advanced topics (data structures) can be difficult to understand.

Java: Class based. Gives you a good understand of class objects early on because that's how the language is organized. Very useful for web development/easy cross-platform, but not much else. Basic output/syntax are a little easier than C++. Designing GUIs (actually creating the GUI by handinstead of having an IDE do it for you) is very simple.

C#: Class based. The syntax is almost exactly like Java, but this language is very powerful and gives you a lot more options. You can create Windows GUIs using Visual Studio with little to no experience with C#. I've never worked with console output using C# because its much more useful forcreating GUIs. 

PHP: Script/Function based. A lot of PHP syntax is like C++, but understanding what you're doing is much simpler than C++. PHP is used for web development on the server side. The script executes on the server and sends data to the client's web browser. This is a good language if you want to workon understanding web-cp, and also very easy to understand.

If you want to create games, you have a couple options. Allegro (as desmond mentioned) is a game library that you can use once you know a decent amount of C++. The XNA game studio is a library created by microsoft for use with C#. Both have their pros/cons. I prefer Allegro because of thecontrol over the computer C++ gives you. Others prefer developing for platforms like windows phone, zune, xbox; which is possible only with the XNA game studio.

One final thing to consider is the use of a garbage collector. A garbage collector basically cleans up your mess when you're programming. C# and Java both have this, making it much less of a headache when programming. However the result is increased program execution times (more overhead). C++doesn't have a garbage collector, making it more of a headache but much more efficient.

tl;dr: C++ allows you control over a ton of the computers functions. You have more control over the way you handle the memory usage (which is huge). Java/C# give you less control but both have their own practical applications. PHP serves its own purpose completely and in the case is probably thebest starting point (IMO).

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class EOSERV {
Programmer | Oldbie
Open source EO Client: https://github.com/ethanmoffat/EndlessClient
};

Well I won't be going to college for coding or anything. But could in future. So where should i start? I will learn about 2-3 hrs a day. So is PHP good to help me understand the syntax and format? I do eventually want to get onto c++.

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Endless-Online Version 18
Original Madmat