Forum :: Lounge :: Legalization of Same Sex Marriages Everywhere?

This is my ultimate viewpoint:

I do not condone homosexuality. I find it disturbing and unnatural. I still respect the gay and lesbian community as human beings. Christ died for them, just the same as He died for me. If you want to live that way, fine. It is your choice. But it is not the way we were created to be, and I do believe that the PREDOMINANT part of homosexuality is choice. Genetics can influence it, perhaps, but I don't think it can make you gay.

Interestingly, the idea of a "gay-gene" is hilariously antithetical to evolution. It shouldn't exist, because it shouldn't be getting reproduced. The "gay-gene" would very likely have been the first gene to get wiped out of the gene pool.

Scott posted: (27th Sep 2010 03:28 am)

Zyrkhan posted: (27th Sep 2010 03:24 am)

Oh wow, having an older brother makes you 33% more likely to be gay? Wow. Think of all the thousands of boys around the world who grew up as the youngest of five or six sibling brothers who turned out straight. That's fighting a 160-200% probability. Or some of the farmingfamiliesofthe depression era that had a dozen or more kids, almost all of them boys. At that point you're fighting almost 300% probability. 

If you have a 300% genetic disposition to be gay, and AREN'T gay, what do you call that? Oh! I know! Choice.

Apparently this study was in-accurate. However, at the time, it did make sense. I'm not going to rule out this could be accurate but it probably wasn't. For the record, I'm the oldest and only male child in my family so this doesn't apply to me but there are others studies that do suggest it isgenetic and not a choice. The scientific community generally goes with genetics and not choice. I suppose one could pretend to be gay just like a gay person can pretend to be straight.

I would say there is about an equal chance of it being between choice and genetics, as we as a people still don't know everything about genetics. It still has countless un-answered questions and could very well account for the subliminal subconscience urges that may drive certain individuals down the homosexual lifestyle.

But, on the otherside, genetics may have nothing to do with it at all, and it could be merely choice. Again, we just don't know for certain.

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And relating back to the study, if you could find a link to the article, I'd love to read it.

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Oh, it's you.
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Yes, bigots do misquote the Bible and use it improperly. I am a Christian, and I find the people you quite accurately call "bigots" distasteful. They're not doing what they should be doing. 

I do apologize for misquoting you. I was reading a little fast and missed it. As a note though, Leviticus is the book of ceremonial law (hence being to the Levites or priests), and is after Exodus.

@ Scott - "This topic really isn't about "religious" or "moral" beliefs." So you saying that you honestly didn't think that this topic would get into the topic of religion? The main reason that people are against it is because of their religion.

I'm not goint to say much more because I know this will be a never ending battle. This is just how I feel and what I believe. If you don't agree with me that's fine. I'm not going to force my oppinions on anyone

@ Devingg - Your right, it honestly doesn't effect me. But if I say "Sure allow gay marriage" then I'm going against what I believe. Just because this thing doesn't effect me doesn't mean that I should just brush it off my shoulder like "Whatever, doesn't matter go for it". I would be showing people who aren't Christians around me that we Christians think gay marriage is acceptable if I said yes to this and I don't want that message to come across.

Well, it also depends on what type of Christian you are, as there are a few different kinds. There are the hardcore Christians who live by the bible to the word, and then there are the relaxed Christians.

I personally am Agnostic.

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Oh, it's you.
[Omni, Seraphim, Idea, Returnity]

I don't want to offend anyone but the only reasons you seem to have provided are moral or religious and are not scientific facts. While there isn't an exact answer of whether it is genetic I find the studies that have been conducted to support genetics and evolution. Since you have cited religious concerns regarding homosexuality I doubt you would accept evolution (creationism is NOT accepted by the scientific community). Homosexuality has been linked to evolution and has been well documented in a large number of animals. I'm not going to cite the specific studies, however, with a bit of Google'ing you should be able to find them. Religions are simply not backed up by science and therefore I can't take it seriously in any capacity. There are several religions and the majority all disagree with each other and basically state believers of other religions are going to burn in hell or other types of unfavorable stuff. I fail to see how one religion is correct and the others are wrong. There are religions that are accepting of homosexuality and same-sex marriage. I guess it basically comes down to whether the government is willing to put the Constitution (or whatever it may be called in that country) above religion which it has basically done in Lawrence v. Texas in the United States.

I have no stance on homosexuality. I can however understand how one would feel if they'd found someone they truly want to spend their life with, only to be told that by law they can't be recognised as a legally married couple. Personally if and when I find the person I choose to spend my life with, whoever she may be, I would be heartbroken if I couldn't marry that person, especially if the only reason was one imposed by some religious group and their flawed beliefs.

Even though I myself am a heterosexual being, i'm going to side with Scott on this one for the reason above. Between two people, love is an incredible thing, and it's not up to anyone else to interfere in that, religious groups included.

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Hell , same sex marriage s fine by me , As for some of you with religious views how many of you think that the bible as is known today is the same as it was when it was first written down?  in the past 100 years it has been changed so many times its not funny , so who knows what it had once said originally. back to same sex marriage if two people are in love why shouldnt they be allowed to be married? Dig your head out of the sand people times are changing faster then you think. Anyways i was all over the place on this post (sorry)

Just sit back, relax and adopt a way of bringing inner peace .

Everyone will be happier..

Ps. I have relatives that are "homosexual" so i feel strongly about same sex rights.

Meo.

ethanmoffat posted: (27th Sep 2010 08:23 am)

I know religion has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. However, I do use my religious beliefs as a basis for my reasoning so stating them is necessary (and I need to set a few things straight that seem to have been improperly stated).

I'm a Christian. I used to be totally against gay people in general because of events of my past, and used the Bible to back it up. But I seemed to be forgetting the Jesus part. You can't only focus on the Old Testament. If you want to call yourself a Christian, you are associating with aJewishsect that believes that Jesus was the messiah, a Jewish sect that also accepts non-Jews.

Paul wrote in one of his books (can't remember which) that Christ didn't come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. So really, the Old Testament still applies. It was also said by Christ that what comes out of your mouth, NOT what goes in, that makes you unclean, because what comes out isfromthe heart. So that answers the shellfish issue. Foods no longer make people unclean, because of Christ.

One thing Christianity considers major is love (no matter what the bigots say). Love for other people. Unconditional love, even for those you don't know. The Good Samaritan stopped and helped a Jew when he was beaten by robbers, and even paid the innkeeper extra to keep him extra daysand takecare of him. The catch? Samaritans were the outcasts. Half-breeds of Jews and some other race I can't think of off the top of my head. LOVE. I know it's just a parable but it's a simple story that still really makes me think. Even after having heard it for 15 years.

So how does this relate to our topic? Well. Jesus loved the tax collectors and other 'sinners' (he even associated with a Samaritan woman, a PROSTITUTE, asking her for a drink of water). These were the kind of people that all the 'good Jews' hated because they extorted the crap out of themforthe Roman empire or were excessive sinners. 

So who would Jesus hang out with today? The homosexuals. The people the 'good christians' (I guess bigots in this case) wouldn't associate with today. On top of this, the constitution protects everyone's rights already. I see so many similarities to the civil rights movement in the 60s.Irealize it's totally different but still. It's another civil rights group fighting for natural rights in a different era, and all because people just tend to be different. That difference shouldn't mean inequality in a country that is based on equal rights (even if those weren't fully realizedatfirst).

Ok. So the last part. Just because Jesus would associate with them, doesn't mean he would agree with them. The same goes with me. I still love homosexuals, and support the cause for their rights in the United States. What I don't like is where people think it isn't sin. You'd besurprised at all the little things you do that still make you imperfect for God. Also why I think it is a choice, or a thought process, God wouldn't design people or put things like that in His plan for them if it was specifically violating His will. So if you're trying to be the super christianhere, remember,you have your sin too. It's not like you're perfect. None of us are. However my thoughts in this paragraph are based on my beliefs in God and his plan for everyone, so this doesn't really apply to those with beliefs different than my own.

I really hope this allows you to see my thought process in a different light than my original post. Or even see your OWN thought process in a different way. If you want me to look up anything in the Bible that I've quoted for accuracy just let me know.

arna posted: (27th Sep 2010 04:33 pm)

The last statement is where i slightly disagree with you. I believe that supporting their cause isn't what God meant when he said love them. I think he is telling us to treat them like you would your friends. Be nice to them and don't push them in a corner and ignore them because you knowtheyare sining.

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